Discussion

    Diehlicious
    Purported Water Damage- Droid Razr Maxx
    Discussion posted August 20, 2012 by DiehliciousLandline (10+ points)  , tagged DROID RAZR MAXX by Motorola
    8473 Views, 40 Comments
    Discussion Subject:
    Purported Water Damage- Droid Razr Maxx
    Comment:

    My Droid Razr Maxx was having some strange battery issues.  Occasionally the battery level would drop about 30% instaneously.  Furthermore, the phone seems really sluggish.  This phone had these problems from day one and I thought that it was an app that I installed that was causing the problems.   To make a long story short I couldn't pin point a problematic app and so I sent the phone to Motorola for repairs. After almost a week, they finally got back to me and said that the phone had water damage and they couldn't do anything for me.  I never dropped my phone in liquid or dropped liquid on my phone.  How could there be liquid damage?  Could liquid damage be respnonsible for the problems I've described (for a more thorough discussion of my phone's problems see my other posting)?  Do I have any recourse in a situation like this, where Motorola claims there is liquid damage (they've yet to provide proof) and I know I never exposed my phone to liquid?  Please help!!

    Answer

    • crystallet

      There's a sensor in the phone.  If the sensor is tripped (changes color or whatever it does), then the phone has experienced water damage.  The sensor is Moto repair's indication that the phone came in contact with liquid, and they don't have the leeway, I would think to say that the sensor is faulty.

      You're telling us that the phone never got wet.  Therefore, I would contact Motorola again and see if you can't escalate this higher.  Just keep firmly and politely insisting that you want to speak to a supervisor, a manager, a department head...just keep going until you find someone who will listen.

      We've heard some horror stories here about some repair center supervisors.  Be strong, be polite, and gather up all the patience you have.  

      I wish you luck...really!  

    • JBass
      crystallet said:

      There's a sensor in the phone.

       If the sensor is tripped (changes color or whatever it does), then the phone has experienced water damage.  

      The sensor is Moto repair's indication that the phone came in contact with liquid, and they don't have the leeway, I would think to say that the sensor is faulty.

      You're telling us that the phone never got wet.  Therefore, I would contact Motorola again and see if you can't escalate this higher.  Just keep firmly and politely insisting that you want to speak to a supervisor, a manager, a department head...just keep going until you find someone who will listen.

      We've heard some horror stories here about some repair center supervisors.  Be strong, be polite, and gather up all the patience you have.  

      I wish you luck...really!  

       

      The little white and red areas on the water damage button will run together if they are moistened.

      Even a little blending of the two color areas will qualify as water damage... Surprised

    • joelbon

      There isn't a way for the user to check the water damage sensors. At least, not on the Razr. The Razr is not intended to be taken apart by the end user.

      One thing that you could try is to call Verizon and explain the situation you are having with the phone and see if they will replace. That might work. Worth a shot maybe. Good luck to you.

    • crystallet
      Thanks for the pic, JB. I wondered what that nasty little sucker looked like. :-)
    • JBass
      joelbon said:

      There isn't a way for the user to check the water damage sensors.

       At least, not on the Razr. The Razr is not intended to be taken apart by the end user.

       Good point... No disassembly required or permitted...

      crystallet said:

      Thanks for the pic, JB.

      I wondered what that nasty little sucker looked like. :-)

       But for the curious:

      http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-RAZR-Teardown/7048/1

       

      first image

      Don't Try this at home...

    • Diehlicious

      Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement.  I don't know which of the two liquid damage indicators was affected as Motorola hasn't yet shown me any proof about this.  Furthermore, did you notice on the ifixit website ( http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-RAZR-Teardown/7048/1) how one of the inidicators is just inside the power button extemely close to the edge?  It seems like it is designed to be affected by even small amounts of moisture (read: sweaty hands).  In fact ifixit.com wrote " We recommend not sweating while holding this phone, as that indicator is mighty close to the edge!"  I don't think my phone's problems have anything to do with liquid damage but Motorola seems to have designed their phone to easily void my warranty!!  This is my first and last Motorola phone.

    • timss1964

      I do not know what area you live in, but I have known other people who had phones warranty voided by mfgs (several, not just Moto) due to moisture. In several cases it was simply the humid climate that tripped the moisture pads. It appears theRazr has two indicators, I would hope they would require BOTH to be showing moisture exposure before denying warranty. I do not know if they do, I would hope so in fairness.

      As suggested, keep contacting Moto, escalate, calmly, politely and hopefully they will make good for you. Also, contact Verizon as well and do the same. Perhaps you can get this worked out.

    • Cirap
      Diehlicious said:

      Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement.  I don't know which of the two liquid damage indicators was affected as Motorola hasn't yet shown me any proof about this.  Furthermore, did you notice on the ifixit website ( http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-RAZR-Teardown/7048/1) how one of the inidicators is just inside the power button extemely close to the edge?  It seems like it is designed to be affected by even small amounts of moisture (read: sweaty hands).  In fact ifixit.com wrote " We recommend not sweating while holding this phone, as that indicator is mighty close to the edge!"  I don't think my phone's problems have anything to do with liquid damage but Motorola seems to have designed their phone to easily void my warranty!!  This is my first and last Motorola phone.

       I don't think they designed it that way to purposfully void your warranty by sweaty hands, but rather the explination lies in the fact that the RAZR is splash-resistant (not "splas-proof" or "water-proof"... "resistant")

      Basically the phone's body is protected against liquids. its weak-points lie in the USB port, HDMI port and around the seams of the power button and volume rocker (possibly speaker and mics also). Therefor, if you dropped your phone in water, this is where water would enter, and this is where the moisture sticker would have to be located. having it placed in a deep, impenetrable part of the phone would be pointless, as users could submerge the phone, kill it, and it still wouldn't trip the sticker.

       

      edit: and simply tripping the sticker (i.e by "sweaty hands") wouldn't do anything to the hardware. you could open the phone, dab the sticker with a poist Q-tip to trip and it would still leave the hardware unaffected. the moist sticker is in no way tied to your hardware. OP hardware is seemingly faulty, and it has a tipped moist sticker. It's hard to tell if they are correlated without deep examination, but I doubt anyone could kill the phone by simply having sweaty hands. So something else probably happened to the phone

    • JBass
      Cirap said:

       I don't think they designed it that way to purposefully void your warranty by sweaty hands, but rather the explanation lies in the fact that the RAZR is splash-resistant (not "splash-proof" or "water-proof"... "resistant")

      Basically the phone's body is protected against liquids. its weak-points lie in the USB port, HDMI port and around the seams of the power button and volume rocker (possibly speaker and mics also). Therefor, if you dropped your phone in water, this is where water would enter, and this is where the moisture sticker would have to be located. having it placed in a deep, impenetrable part of the phone would be pointless, as users could submerge the phone, kill it, and it still wouldn't trip the sticker.

       

      edit: and simply tripping the sticker (i.e by "sweaty hands") wouldn't do anything to the hardware.

      you could open the phone, dab the sticker with a poist Q-tip to trip and it would still leave the hardware unaffected.

      the moist sticker is in no way tied to your hardware.

      OP hardware is seemingly faulty, and it has a tipped moist sticker.

      It's hard to tell if they are correlated without deep examination, but I doubt anyone could kill the phone by simply having sweaty hands.

      So something else probably happened to the phone

       

      Moisture sensors are merely a manufacturers way of concretely confirming moisture exposure, not necessarily damage.

      Given their situation, Moto is highly motivated to identify customer abuse/damage, in an effort to reduce its' warranty exposure.

      Years ago, my wife's flip phone razr's began to physically disintegrate, so we went to VZ to see what they would do about it.

      They removed the battery cover, and said the phone would not be covered under warranty as the moisture sensor was tripped.

      I explained to my wife (loudly enough to guarantee that the VZ rep could hear), that "as your contract has expired, you could now move to an IPhone" (then only available at ATT).

      Surprise, surprise, they decided to give her a new phone... Wink

    • Nanniepoo
      Cirap said:
      Diehlicious said:

      Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement.  I don't know which of the two liquid damage indicators was affected as Motorola hasn't yet shown me any proof about this.  Furthermore, did you notice on the ifixit website ( http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-RAZR-Teardown/7048/1) how one of the inidicators is just inside the power button extemely close to the edge?  It seems like it is designed to be affected by even small amounts of moisture (read: sweaty hands).  In fact ifixit.com wrote " We recommend not sweating while holding this phone, as that indicator is mighty close to the edge!"  I don't think my phone's problems have anything to do with liquid damage but Motorola seems to have designed their phone to easily void my warranty!!  This is my first and last Motorola phone.

       I don't think they designed it that way to purposfully void your warranty by sweaty hands, but rather the explination lies in the fact that the RAZR is splash-resistant (not "splas-proof" or "water-proof"... "resistant")

      Basically the phone's body is protected against liquids. its weak-points lie in the USB port, HDMI port and around the seams of the power button and volume rocker (possibly speaker and mics also). Therefor, if you dropped your phone in water, this is where water would enter, and this is where the moisture sticker would have to be located. having it placed in a deep, impenetrable part of the phone would be pointless, as users could submerge the phone, kill it, and it still wouldn't trip the sticker.

       

      edit: and simply tripping the sticker (i.e by "sweaty hands") wouldn't do anything to the hardware. you could open the phone, dab the sticker with a poist Q-tip to trip and it would still leave the hardware unaffected. the moist sticker is in no way tied to your hardware. OP hardware is seemingly faulty, and it has a tipped moist sticker. It's hard to tell if they are correlated without deep examination, but I doubt anyone could kill the phone by simply having sweaty hands. So something else probably happened to the phone

       Right...but they are going to design it more on the side of "tripping" before there is damage, rather than risking damage without any proof of moisture.  Just a way for Moto to not spend money repairing a phone they didn't actually need to.  The issue is that there is a hardware problem (whether or not its from moisture) and because the sticker has been tripped, the phone can't be fixed under warranty.  If the OP is believable and he/she never introduced water to their phone they're getting screwed because the hardware was exposed to moisture during manufacture, or is otherwise damaged and can't get it fixed because the sticker is tripped.

    • eaccents
      JBass said:
      Cirap said:

       I don't think they designed it that way to purposefully void your warranty by sweaty hands, but rather the explanation lies in the fact that the RAZR is splash-resistant (not "splash-proof" or "water-proof"... "resistant")

      Basically the phone's body is protected against liquids. its weak-points lie in the USB port, HDMI port and around the seams of the power button and volume rocker (possibly speaker and mics also). Therefor, if you dropped your phone in water, this is where water would enter, and this is where the moisture sticker would have to be located. having it placed in a deep, impenetrable part of the phone would be pointless, as users could submerge the phone, kill it, and it still wouldn't trip the sticker.

       

      edit: and simply tripping the sticker (i.e by "sweaty hands") wouldn't do anything to the hardware.

      you could open the phone, dab the sticker with a poist Q-tip to trip and it would still leave the hardware unaffected.

      the moist sticker is in no way tied to your hardware.

      OP hardware is seemingly faulty, and it has a tipped moist sticker.

      It's hard to tell if they are correlated without deep examination, but I doubt anyone could kill the phone by simply having sweaty hands.

      So something else probably happened to the phone

       

      Moisture sensors are merely a manufacturers way of concretely confirming moisture exposure, not necessarily damage.

      Given their situation, Moto is highly motivated to identify customer abuse/damage, in an effort to reduce its' warranty exposure.

      Years ago, my wife's flip phone razr's began to physically disintegrate, so we went to VZ to see what they would do about it.

      They removed the battery cover, and said the phone would not be covered under warranty as the moisture sensor was tripped.

      I explained to my wife (loudly enough to guarantee that the VZ rep could hear), that "as your contract has expired, you could now move to an IPhone" (then only available at ATT).

      Surprise, surprise, they decided to give her a new phone... Wink

      LOL.  Bravo.

    • Matt (Forums Manager)
      Nanniepoo said:

       Right...but they are going to design it more on the side of "tripping" before there is damage, rather than risking damage without any proof of moisture.  Just a way for Moto to not spend money repairing a phone they didn't actually need to.  The issue is that there is a hardware problem (whether or not its from moisture) and because the sticker has been tripped, the phone can't be fixed under warranty.  If the OP is believable and he/she never introduced water to their phone they're getting screwed because the hardware was exposed to moisture during manufacture, or is otherwise damaged and can't get it fixed because the sticker is tripped.

      I'd call that a leap -- you're saying the phone is being shipped with tripped water sensors?

      I feel bad for the original poster, but it sounds like the phone still works, other than an odd battery meter issue.

    • crystallet

      From the Motorola website:

      "A force field of water-repellent nanoparticles shields the phone against water attacks — even the electrical boards inside."  This suggests, clearly, I think, that the phone can actually handle some degree of moisture, even if it's very small.

      On the other side of the coin, there's the language in the warranty that even warns against moisture damage from being very sweaty.

      So, if the phone is supposed to be water tolerant to some degree, and, with a moisture sensor right near the power button where it's easy to see how some small bit of moisture might make its way inside, wouldn't you say that Motorola appears to "speaking with forked tongue"?

      My point is simply this: instead of taking the position that a tripped sensor is proof of a voided warranty, I believe the "water-repellent nanoparticles" statement requires Motorola to go further to determine if the problem is actually being caused by water damage, or if the nanoparticles failed in some way. 

      I wouldn't take this position were it not for Motorola's statements about the phone shielding itself from water attacks.

    • Matt (Forums Manager)

      I would turn this around and say that if a phone shows signs of iwater damage even after all the precautions Motorola has taken, then some significant moisture event is likely.

      Please understand that this is not directed at the OP, but simply to show that there's another side to this.

    • Diehlicious

      Thank you everyone for your insights and opinions.  Motorola has just shipped my phone back to me without even trying to fix it.  What is weird is that they never gave me any proof that the liquid indicator has been affected.  In their email they told me to look at the attached image of the liquid damage indicator, but there was no attached image.  I went to the my moto care website to look at my case and again there was no image (even though they said there should be one).  So in my phone conversation with Motorola I pointed this out to them and they told me that they would send me an image within 24 hours, it has been about 30 hours.  I feel like they are being dishonest and an unfair.  What recourse do you think I may have?  I can't open up the phone and look at the indicators can I without then voiding the warranty?  How do I know that the indicators have been activated since this is a closed hardware device?